Nipple Rule Revision: Voting and Discussion

Old announcement of past promotion rounds and updates to Wolfhome.

Should the rule be revised and changed?

Keep the rule as is (no nipples allowed)
26
26%
Change the rule (Male nipples, no female nipples)
73
74%
 
Total votes: 99
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Zuko
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:07 pm

There’s like a million and one pages on this, so I’m not going to read it all, but I do want to point out that there is a smidge of equality on the forums with the creation of the mature gallery. Sure, kiddos can’t access it, but they don’t need to. It’s better than nothing. We can’t have everything we want and I know that sucks because I believe AFAB people should be able to show their nipples, but it just won’t happen here. The rule is definitely too strict on AMAB nipples.

Many people aren’t getting AFAB art with nipples on them anyway. It would have to be NSFW art or tasteful nudity for most artists. WH doesnt allow either, AFAB or AMAB outside the mature gallery.

It sucks. I really understand and know this. But change won’t happen here the way we want it to until the US changes their tune on sexualising a baby’s food source.

Censoring AMAB nipples seems to be too much. Like imagine posting a gif of a shirtless AMAB person and having to censor out their nipples.

Yes, it’s unfair. Yes, not everyone will be happy with ANY decision made, but that’s where we have to compromise and be respectful toward each other.

It is a sexist concept for AFAB nipples to be banned, but WH is just trying to protect themselves against any legal troubles that arise, if they ever would.

I’m for allowing AMAB nipples to come back. Censoring everything is a bit ridiculous. And especially anthros with feral nipples (what’s up with that being banned?) It really screws up a lot of people’s art to have to edit it out. Let’s all just remind ourselves that we are here as a community and Wolfhome isn’t a war zone or battle ground. We have to be respectful of others and the final decision of the staff, even if we don’t agree with their decision.
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Ayla
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:52 pm

so we can have the "mound" on a chest just not the nipple?

idk i dont go on chat and am just curious
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:53 pm

Ayla wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:52 pm
so we can have the "mound" on a chest just not the nipple?

idk i dont go on chat and am just curious
The breast but with no nipple, yes.
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:13 pm

I've taken the time to go through all the replies to this topic and have been following it as it progresses with further opinions and thoughts. This has always been a touchy subject to bring up on Wolfhome, one that not many people like to chime in on and give their full opinions on; and understandably so. It normally has always flamed into a heated debate, one that isn't always one that's fun to discuss. Angry posts being fuelled by others in a negative light, and that's not something we really need to be doing to each other. We should be respectful and no matter how frustrated we are, personally, we should think about what we're posting before it's posted. With that being said I'm not saying we shouldn't post our personal feelings or thoughts on the matter, but there's a right and a wrong way in how it can be brought out and written down.

A lot of the posts prior to this have already mentioned why we're restricted in our choices in allowing all nipples - the law. Now yes I understand a lot of people are mentioning, "Well let's change this, and let's be the one's to allow it." Well it's not that simple, and I think we all know that, as much as we'd like to object and turn away from it and do as we please and what we think it should be like. I don't agree with it at all personally, that we can't allow perfect equality, but life isn't fair. There's things we can do to help work towards things we'd like to make happen, but unfortunately Wolfhome is not the place to try and change it, it sadly will not happen. The real source of the issue at hand, (I'd like to quote a part of Fable's post in particular for this):
fable wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:17 pm
Go contact your local state rep, and senate, keep sending in emails, make phone calls, talk to people in your area and try to speak with others even your age who see the same way on this matter, so that you all can send in complaints in masses, not post about it here, where no change will happen because the internet is controlled by legal laws that you need to change FIRST before you try to change the rules of a site.
Implementing what we all want (which is implementing ALL nipples) could cause legal action to be taken against Underdog and all Chatlands, and what would we have then? I most certainly would not like to see it removed and lose all that we have here. And as much as I want this, I don't want to lose the ONE place that I feel comfortable, accepted, and quite frankly has been in my life for 10 years. My childhood in a nutshell, as well as many others. I couldn't blame Underdog in not wanting to go through with this either, because nobody wants legal action taken against them. I most certainly would not. As much as there's hardship, and unnecessary drama occasionally, Wolfhome and Chatlands is very important to many people here including myself, and it would not fix anything in the law, we'd just become another failed attempt. Which is what we don't want, at all.

As for a lot of the members being upset that this was being brought up again for discussion, this was mentioned previously that it would be brought back up for re-discussion. I can definitely understand the feeling of wanting a permanent answer, and wanting to keep consistent. But if we can provide the community with something they very much request, we can't ignore that. We see the desire in numbers, and I most certainly do not want people to think that they are not being heard, or that we're not attempting to try. It may seem fresh, but this was also wanted by a lot of the userbase and community, that we revisit this. Extremely requested, even. It is something that the Administration thrives to try and achieve, the desire to please and give the community, all of you, what you'd like to see and have here. It's not our goal nor personal achievement to meddle in how we can deny all of you of what you want. So in re-opening this topic, we offer what we can and see that we can give at least some of what you'd like back, instead of denying all of it. (I'd like to now quote another post that I personally agree with by ANORUK):
ANORUK wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:02 pm
Is it bullshit that boobs n their nipples get sexualized? Yeah. Does that mean masc nipples should be taken away for "fairness"? Fuck no. That's not progress. That's regression. If your goal is to eventually see a world where female nipples aren't taboo, making ALL nipples taboo won't achieve that.
Not to mention, wolfhome certainly won't be making any waves in the social norm. We've disallowed masc nipples for a long ass time and all it's lead to is Memes basically.
Seeing as allowing all nipples just simply isn't an option, as much as we'd like for it to be, we have the option to allow at least one of these choices. And I'm personally all for it, disallowing all just seems like regression. As ANORUK stated above. It's not any sort of progress, but I also see how a lot of you like the idea of all or none. I can see both sides, but I personally feel like if we can get at least a little bit of what we want, then why shouldn't we. It's a start, and that seems a lot better as a compromise then completely disallowing all. (And for this I'd like to quote a post from Shanirie because they had an amazing analogy):
shanirie wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:05 pm
it kinda seems to me like saying “all or none” at this point is like being in the cafeteria at school, and your friend has a cupcake but your mom didn’t pack you one. So you walk up and say “well I don’t have a cupcake, so you can’t either” but idk I can see both sides so 🤷‍♀️
As for a little compromise, I know a lot of people still don't know of the Mature Gallery. This is something we offer to those wanting to post mature art and whatnot, as well as a few other options. Sure younger audiences may not be able to access it due to the requirement of needing to be a certain age, but it is definitely better than having nothing at all. Yes, it's unfair, but a lot in this world is unfair. Whether we agree with it or not, sadly there isn't much of a choice. As long as we can keep finding compromises and working on fixing what we can, then that's what we should push for.

Don't stop pushing for what you want to see in the world, progress comes, but it takes a lot of hard work and dedication - not just on a forum. As simple as I wish it would be.
I encourage everyone to try and do what they can off-site, and bring your thoughts and opinions to others in government and in charge of these laws. I highly respect everyone's opinion here and it gives me hope that someday we will be able to live in a world that progresses and change in a positive light. Especially those pushing for all nipples. You're all strong and really stand behind your words, and that just shows hope.

And I dig that. I admire that. I respect that.
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:52 pm

Im sorry i bumped the old nipple topic i really didnt mean too lmao
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:58 pm

Tomura wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:52 pm
Im sorry i bumped the old nipple topic i really didnt mean too lmao
It most certainly is not your fault, it was going to be brought up for re-discussion within the week!
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:59 pm

Admiral wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:58 pm
Tomura wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:52 pm
Im sorry i bumped the old nipple topic i really didnt mean too lmao
It most certainly is not your fault, it was going to be brought up for re-discussion within the week!
oh okay
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:00 pm

Tomura wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:52 pm
Im sorry i bumped the old nipple topic i really didnt mean too lmao
If it matters it was going to be brought up again anyways soon since the administration was discussing it (I believe it was Akala who said this), so your posting on it couldn’t have stopped this from happening anyways, so don’t blame yourself

Edit: admiral beat me to it
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:10 pm

I just really enjoy nips okay gosh
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:38 pm

Tomura wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:10 pm
I just really enjoy nips okay gosh
OHMYGOD I feel so bad you're just a new baby. IT WAS GONNA BE BROUGHT UP !! its okay laughed
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:43 pm

The discussion regarding the legality of nipple displays has been bandied about quite a bit. Would someone mind citing a credible source to verify this claim? :-?

I am very curious to where such information is coming from.
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:57 pm

LucanWolf wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:43 pm
The discussion regarding the legality of nipple displays has been bandied about quite a bit. Would someone mind citing a credible source to verify this claim? :-?

I am very curious to where such information is coming from.
Agreed. I kept looking for something on it but couldn’t find anything. It would be helpful if it would be legalities regarding websites themselves, not society outside of the Internet.
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Generally, from what I was taught in class, the internet will follow the movies' ratings - thus, PG, PG13, etc. Thus, look at those for the laws and regulations.
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:37 pm

While whether or not we are going to allow all nipples is not currently up for discussion, which has been stated exhaustively, I personally feel the most pertinent legal case is Miller v. California, 413 U.S. 15 (1973). In this case, the Supreme Court established a set of guidelines to determine whether or not art was "obscene" which is not protected speech in the US. No sane person would throw their hat down and scream "All breasty nipples are sexually explicit material!" However, it becomes complicated when you take a 2D chat pose and use it in an interactive environment. Are "female nipples" sexualized in this country? It's sad but true. Are "female nipples" more likely to be exploited by teenagers on chat? Google analytics can resolve that question for you in a jiffy. It is simply a lot easier for certain anatomical details to be abused in ways that will negatively impact this community at this point in the United States' cultural progression.

Are "female nipples" federally illegal? Not at all, but they are illegal and specifically considered "indecent exposure" in most states of the US. To make it all more fun these legal considerations refer to pornographic material of human bodies, of people, so we can only use these current legal standards as guidelines in order to anticipate future legal guidelines and in order to respect the content that parents expect their children to be exposed to when they allow minors to access this community. As with most of the rules on this site, this stance is being taken to be extremely careful to make sure minors are not exposed to explicit content. No, there is not a US federal law that says, "Anthro animal ladies can't show their nips in 2D chat environments" but there are valid legal concerns regarding our obligation to protect minors from obscene material.

We do use MPAA ratings to describe what kind of content we expect to be seen in certain areas, but as we are all aware the guidelines of the MPAA are functionally esoteric and inconsistent. Therefore, while you are able to glimpse a nip in a PG movie that doesn't mean you're likely to see them pop up on CPI any time soon.
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:52 am

genuine question: if you start allowing "masc" nipples this is basically to mean if the character has a flat chest, nipples are completely fine ? its a no go for any non flat boob
I ask this bc I have flat chested female characters (jacket) and nonbinary characters (spacebar, turdpee) and bc theyre flat chested and this place doesnt allow junk flapping around I could actually claim them to be male and theyd get the pass so where exactly would you be crossing the line ?
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