Ignore feature recommendation overly used

This section is for posting questions regarding Wolfhome, workings or details, or simply needing to contact one of the administration. Bans or warnings given, whether temporary or permanent, will NOT be discussed, and topics containing such material will be immediately deleted.
User avatar
winchester
Adept Protector
Adept Protector
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:49 pm
Preferred Name: grace
Species: eldritch
Location: the void
Contact:

Fri May 25, 2018 1:08 am

Frezzi wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:51 am
I fail to see the point brought up in response to my post...if you're not in any way, shape or form engaging someone who's breaking the rules, then it seems even more logical to simply gather the necessary evidence and then ignoring the person while the report is being handled. Their presence is clearly not beneficial to your experience, so why not ignore them once you've sent your report, so that you can return to your own endeavours again?
ok but: why allow racists, sexual harassers, etc., remain on chat that continue to make remarks and stuff about it? no one else seems to be reporting them, so.. why not.. get them off the chat since they're breaking the rules and allowed to do so?
4 x

"Half gods are worshipped in wine and flowers.
Real gods require blood.
"
Image
intj-t | scorpio/sagittarius cusp | slytherin
Sarahah
aka: stark - gansey - winchester


coyote
Omniscient
Omniscient
Posts: 25690
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:58 am
Contact:

Fri May 25, 2018 1:17 am

Frezzi wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:51 am
I fail to see the point brought up in response to my post...if you're not in any way, shape or form engaging someone who's breaking the rules, then it seems even more logical to simply gather the necessary evidence and then ignoring the person while the report is being handled. Their presence is clearly not beneficial to your experience, so why not ignore them once you've sent your report, so that you can return to your own endeavours again?
Because there's those who refuse to allow offensive material such as racist, sexual harassment, phobic users to post willy nilly on chat, and be proud of their offensive behavior. Sure, you can ignore them, and not see it, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Ignoring the problem, isn't ever a solution, getting the problem handled and dealt with however, is a solution.
5 x

User avatar
viverrinae
Spirit Guide - Wise Healer
Spirit Guide - Wise Healer
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:43 pm
Preferred Name: viv
Species: genet
Contact:

Fri May 25, 2018 5:37 am

I agree !! And while I cannot think of any specific time this has happened to me, I have been in chat recently and felt obligated to use to the ignore feature when someone that was kind of breaking rules, I wasn't sure and I didn't want to bother an admin. Knowing myself and how I am, there's probably been an instance when the ignore feature was recommended to me in the past. I've just left rooms or went silent.

I do remember that as an admin on Lupinar, we took reports but we did suggest using the ignore feature until we could at least sort it out. Like if it was something we had to talk to another admin about first, it was just an in the mean time thing.
3 x

User avatar
Aeonium
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Posts: 7249
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:16 pm
Gender: Genderfluid
Pronouns: They/Them
Preferred Name: Grayson
Species: Red fox
Location: Texas

Fri May 25, 2018 10:11 am

coyote wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:01 am
Also when did it become okay to let those who have been reported, know who reported them? Isn't that a break of confidentiliaty? Man, I wouldn't be reporting anything if it got me either a suggestion of the ignore feature and not handled, or I was gonna be snitched on by the staff themselves, js.
This is definitely breaking confidentiality, yes.

As for everything else, I agree that the ignore feature shouldn't be the default answer given without other things to back it up.
IE; "Thank you for your report, we are handling the situation, please use the ignore feature in the meantime if you feel uncomfortable by their actions".
I have personally witnessed in the past and experienced an admin telling people/me to ignore them after the report was given & the admin go completely silent after that - especially when the user keeps doing it. Something to just tell us the report is being handled will definitely help.

I don't use Wolfhome's chat any longer, so I don't know how things are handled any more. I just hope we can reach a point where everyone is satisfied with the outcome - because in this instance, it can happen.
2 x

AutumnRain
Adept Protector
Adept Protector
Posts: 1636
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:07 am
Gender: Female
Pronouns: Whatever
Preferred Name: Whatever
Location: MA

Fri May 25, 2018 2:51 pm

Awkward.

Frezzi's point was simply that that may be why the Ignore feature is suggested by default - so that bystanders and witnesses to abusive behavior are not also in trouble for their actions. I, too, was an admin for a long time, and I did recommend it in almost all circumstances even if I was actively banning the person who was reported. I have seen so many situations where good people who were just defending themselves or their friends had to get into trouble because they escalated the situation by breaking rules themselves. It isn't to imply that you, personally, are stupid. It's a precaution and an obligatory reminder.

Any admin who gives away the name of the person making a report to someone outside of the staff (provided the staff aren't the ones being reported) ought to be investigated in full. This post has brought to light a problem most of us were probably unaware of, including members of the staff.
6 x

User avatar
Akala
Alpha
Alpha
Posts: 19161
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:56 am
Gender: Female
Species: Pudu Deer x Fox
Location: Australia

Fri May 25, 2018 4:46 pm

AutumnRain wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:51 pm
Awkward.

Frezzi's point was simply that that may be why the Ignore feature is suggested by default - so that bystanders and witnesses to abusive behavior are not also in trouble for their actions. I, too, was an admin for a long time, and I did recommend it in almost all circumstances even if I was actively banning the person who was reported. I have seen so many situations where good people who were just defending themselves or their friends had to get into trouble because they escalated the situation by breaking rules themselves. It isn't to imply that you, personally, are stupid. It's a precaution and an obligatory reminder.

Any admin who gives away the name of the person making a report to someone outside of the staff (provided the staff aren't the ones being reported) ought to be investigated in full. This post has brought to light a problem most of us were probably unaware of, including members of the staff.
This is exactly correct as to why we suggest the ignore feature frequently. We're not shutting anybody down or trying to cover things up, we are simply asking you to ignore the person to avoid further issues while we figure out the appropriate course of action. Some things are choppy and skirt by the rules and require discussion.
5 x
Image
It does not matter to M'aiq how strong or smart one is.
It only matters what one can do.

Wolfhome Fundraiser | Commissions | Artwork | Premades | Art Queue

User avatar
Ragana
The stuff of Legends
The stuff of Legends
Posts: 15857
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:07 am
Gender: Agender
Species: Silver Fox
Location: Florida

Fri May 25, 2018 6:58 pm

I would often recommend the Ignore Feature to users when I was a) investigating and needed more time to gather any and all information before taking immediate action and b) the users seemed distressed by each other's presence and would benefit from just not engaging

A lot of times that I used the Ignore Feature recommendation it was because users were actively fighting one another despite my being called (as an admin) and the fight was not helping me to handle the situation appropriately. If people are attacking one another in a room aggressively, I could not do the proper research on the individuals or situation at hand because leaving the chat tab was risky. So, Ignore helps.

While I can't say that I have ever seen such serious topics being brushed aside with an Ignore Feature, I do feel that such instances that may seem similar to this are only one visible side of the spectrum. Admins do a lot of the behind the scenes work. You ex-admins know this.
If something actually turns into a bigger issue upon research, other administrators and even Guardians are brought in for discussion with such topics as pedophilia, racism, harassment, etc. What is an easy and safe solution during a discussion? Ignore.

To keep things at an easy starting pace to eventually handle, the Ignore Feature is helpful. Once it is brought to the admins attention either Ignore the individual if they upset you so much OR let the administration handle it and accept the fact that not every situation can be handled in the blink of an eye. Admins are not asking users to keep an eye on people that are causing trouble. One report gives them enough of a heads up to keep an eye out on there own. A lot of evidence is gathered so proper action can be placed more efficiently and potentially long-term.

I hope that read better than it sounds in my head. I'm very tired. Forgive me.
6 x

Image
☽ Bird Nerd | Furry | Hufflepuff | INTJ ☾
Previously Rayna
9•5•09


User avatar
Aeonium
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Posts: 7249
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:16 pm
Gender: Genderfluid
Pronouns: They/Them
Preferred Name: Grayson
Species: Red fox
Location: Texas

Fri May 25, 2018 7:11 pm

Aeonium wrote: As for everything else, I agree that the ignore feature shouldn't be the default answer given without other things to back it up.
IE; "Thank you for your report, we are handling the situation, please use the ignore feature in the meantime if you feel uncomfortable by their actions".
0 x

User avatar
Vis
Beta - Forum Administrator
Beta - Forum Administrator
Posts: 2590
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:32 am
Species: meme

Fri May 25, 2018 9:15 pm

I think the main issue here is that there is a failure of communication where users want to receive more reassurance that their reports are being taken seriously. I also feel that if there are situations where people think that they have reported something that breaks the rules and it turns out they were mistaken, then it would be helpful to create a habit of following up with users about their reports so they are better able to understand Wolfhome’s rules. If you ever report something to an admin and it’s ignored, report that admin to an alpha. If the alpha brushes you off, report them to an Overseer. If an Overseer brushes you off, report them to Underdog. If the owner of any site ever brushes off the report of a pedophile or any other potential child abuse, report them to the police.

That being said.

We aren't admins on this site because we don't care about it, and we sure don't want this to turn into a haven for people who are intentionally harmful to others. Many of you KNOW that we would never want to tell people to ignore others to avoid being reported for bad behavior, because we want this site to be safe for everyone. There is literally zero reason for us to not want reports. Who doesn't love banning people that are being disruptive and hurtful?

Ideally, we would be able to work WITH users in a way that is mutually respectful and open and be able to give and get trust from users. Recently we have all noticed an increase in negativity. People often feel like the only way to resolve disputes is to wait until the situation escalates to a report. In the future, we would like to be able to have a system where users can communicate more openly to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings and conflicts. We will not always agree, but we have all grown up together and our interactions can grow up, too. We went from a team who was working with our community and felt like we were making real meaningful progress to a team that can't even respond to a report without rumors circulating about their preferential treatment.

Sometimes people don't want to use the ignore feature? That's a non-issue. If you want to ignore people, then do it. If you don't want to ignore people, then don't. If someone is breaking the rules, then you won't have to use the ignore feature because they will go up their ladder and either change their behavior or be removed from the community. The only instance in which this is an issue is when people are not breaking the rules. Followups with users should resolve any lingering confusion in those instances, and you can then decide what course of action will work best for you.
11 x

User avatar
Epilepsy
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Posts: 5776
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:31 am
Gender: Female
Pronouns: She/her
Preferred Name: Haley
Species: Coyote

Fri May 25, 2018 9:41 pm

When the same people are being reported almost daily for racism, and the people who are reporting them aren't actively involving themselves in that conversation. I don't understand why they are being told to ignore them since it's against the rules.
4 x
Image
06/28/17

User avatar
Vis
Beta - Forum Administrator
Beta - Forum Administrator
Posts: 2590
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:32 am
Species: meme

Fri May 25, 2018 9:47 pm

I can say that I have never thought of advising people to use the ignore feature as a way to shut people down. It's just something we suggest to keep people from getting into trouble. Honestly, it's so automatic after working on chats for a while that I hadn't put that much thought into it! If it has been making people feel like their voices aren't important, then that is an oversight on our part, and I at least can not apologize enough if I ever made someone feel that way. Hopefully if we reevaluate when we advise the ignore feature and we give people followups to their reports, things won't get to this point again.
2 x

coyote
Omniscient
Omniscient
Posts: 25690
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:58 am
Contact:

Sat May 26, 2018 12:33 am

Vis wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:15 pm
Many of you KNOW that we would never want to tell people to ignore others to avoid being reported for bad behavior, because we want this site to be safe for everyone. There is literally zero reason for us to not want reports. Who doesn't love banning people that are being disruptive and hurtful?
This is exactly why this post was made though - this has been happening, so saying you wouldn't want that, is contradicting your actual actions, and actions speak louder than words. I don't think the administration realizes sometimes what their responses mean to users, because sometimes, how an admin responds determines if that user ever reports to the administration or that administrator again, and when things are responded with "oh use the ignore feature!" for situations such as racism, phobism (towards a group of people of course), sexual harassment, etc., it's making it seem you don't want them to see the behavior, that it's being hidden, or should be ignored, and has a lot recently from people who are reporting these issues.

If you were in a public crowd, and someone was saying racist and phobic things towards a person or a group of people, or sexual harassing someone, would you ignore it? Would you stand there, and allow them to be mistreated, mocked, or slurs being thrown at them or if their safety was in danger? How would you feel if someone walked up to you, and told you to just ignore it?
Last edited by coyote on Sat May 26, 2018 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
2 x

User avatar
Epilepsy
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Spellweaver and Wordsmith
Posts: 5776
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:31 am
Gender: Female
Pronouns: She/her
Preferred Name: Haley
Species: Coyote

Sat May 26, 2018 12:39 am

For the record, I pick certain admins I report to because of this and how they deal with situations. If the select few aren't online I typically report to I'll report to whoever.
4 x
Image
06/28/17

User avatar
winchester
Adept Protector
Adept Protector
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:49 pm
Preferred Name: grace
Species: eldritch
Location: the void
Contact:

Sat May 26, 2018 8:31 am

*scratchy mic sounds* Now, after our brief pause, I have returned to reply!


Honestly, I had a long response, but whatever, it boils down to this: being so lenient on racists, phobics, etc. and allowing them return, repeat the same offense, joke about their being banned about it, etc. is disheartening. I was under the impression since the Nazi topic happened that WH would be tightening down on this. I'm fairly sure that was promised, and yet - I've witnessed these same users make racist remarks while admins (yes, multiples) are in the same room, and it be joked about that they will be banned. I've reported logs of these users, moments off their bans, joking about it and saying their comments were correct. And yet, it takes my constant reports, when this is a near daily occurrence, to get them handled. I'm unsure of how they're being watched, as Vis said reports tend to alert the admins to problematic behavior, when they've been around for months doing this.

I mean, it's not like the users are well known racists - oh, wait, they are. Maybe admins need to connect with the community more if this is such an unknown issue.

Also, using the "ignore them" comments, especially when the logs show I actively did not engage them, or my group didn't, because they 'upset me' is a cop out. It comes off as defending racists and phobics, as it seems no one else will report it and admins ignore it. Of course I'm upset about racists. Who wouldn't be?

We all know the answer to that question.
3 x

"Half gods are worshipped in wine and flowers.
Real gods require blood.
"
Image
intj-t | scorpio/sagittarius cusp | slytherin
Sarahah
aka: stark - gansey - winchester


User avatar
Fik
Alpha
Alpha
Posts: 18756
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 11:30 pm
Gender: whatever
Preferred Name: KT
Species: Stress Elemental
Location: Otego

Sat May 26, 2018 8:36 am

I honestly agree with a lot of points already made, so I won't reiterate on any of them. We have taken your concerns into consideration, there will be a lengthy discussion, and we will work toward a solution to the proposed problem.

That being said, I will state that if you all feel like an administrator is not doing their duty and is brushing off your concerns, please either report them to another administrator, or bring it directly to me . It is against our code of conduct to not handle a report, no matter how minute. If you feel like I'm ignoring it, or not doing anything about it, please report me to the other overseers. We try our hardest to handle every situation as appropriate. Sometimes that means lengthy discussions on how to handle and what to do, as some of you may know. We utilize ignore reminders because we not only are trying to handle the situation at hand, but we're trying to put people at ease, while the situation is being handled.

I, again, encourage anyone to come to me, or another administrator if you feel like something has not been handled appropriately.
6 x
Art | Premades | Commissions | Sarahah
Image
Just stop your crying.
Baby, it's a sign of the times.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests