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O, The Great Nipple War

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:43 am
by luffy
I would like to preface that I know that there were no discriminatory intentions when modifying this rule.

I was reading through Wolfhome's rules... specifically regarding nipples because that's been Wolfhome's most controversial deal the past however long I've been here. Plus I reported some nipples and the reasoning I got for it being rejected (I really appreciate that you are giving feedback on rejected reports, btw) made me wonder.

So anyway, this piqued my interest:
Nipples are NOT permitted on any female identifying character or on any non-flat chest/breast, regardless of the gender.
This seems to either be:
a) untinentional fat shaming
b) untinentional transphobia regarding transmen that are pre-op or nonbinary people

I am wondering what the thought behind this amendment was, and what arguments were made for and against it.

Thank you!

PS: WH admins, please forgive my bringing this up and I apologize for the headache that will potentially ensue.

Re: O, The Great Nipple War

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:27 pm
by runt
Thank you

Re: O, The Great Nipple War

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:48 pm
by Abraxas
NVM forget this, sorry

Re: O, The Great Nipple War

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:14 pm
by pyr
As yes, the nipples. Ever since Ruwa first brought this conversation mainstream in 2015, it has been an active subtext of the community. There have been roughly 700 posts made on this topic in the public forums alone, and that only applies to the relevant conversations in "The Official Wolfhome Board" and not the hundreds of posts in the admin forums. For those who are curious and have some quarantine time to burn on old Wolfhome drama, the associated discussions can all be found here:

I'll try to tl;dr for people reading this who weren't involved.
  1. almost 2/3rds of voters opt to support #free the nipple (mid 2015)
  2. almost 3/4ths of users vote for all or no nipples (late 2016)
  3. over 80% of users voting reinforce the community opinion of all or none (late 2016)
  4. users vote (a little over half) to allow "male" nipples in private rooms (late 2016)
  5. about 3/4ths of users vote to reverse the rule change restricting all nipples (late 2018)
Due to this being an extremely difficult issue, we leaned heavily on the trans members of our team to implement a change that had been requested for years at that point. serendipity specifically did an amazing job talking to many different individuals and utilizing these thoughts and his own experiences to create guidelines that were as fair as possible in an inherently unfair situation. I know you probably want a long detailed explanation for our wording here but it's genuinely the best we could do with a challenging situation. It's not perfect! If you or anyone else has suggestions for how the wording can be improved I am very grateful for any and all help!

In my opinion, any further rule changes on this topic shouldn't be considered until after we have the Mature pose groups we've requested. But am I excited about potentially improving explanations, wording, and communication? Heck yes!

Re: O, The Great Nipple War

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:18 pm
by Alpen
Pyr you are wonderful at your wolfhome job

Re: O, The Great Nipple War

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:21 pm
by Mongrel
thank u pyr and thank you @serendipity for being a god amongst men

Re: O, The Great Nipple War

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:31 pm
by luffy
Thanks @pyr, very awesomely thorough explanation that I expected from the likes of a Literal Wolfhome God

I don't have any suggestions right now because this is such a complex issue that deals with important rights and poopy laws.