Partners & Siblings/Family on The Administration Team (Poll Closed)

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Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:43 pm

I feel like it is quite a struggle for them I’m sure when we preach about them taking our opinions into consideration just to turn around and belittle them for asking our opinion because “they should know” what is best.

I feel like, in recent events, I would give the benefit of the doubt for the admins and allow those who have close relationships to work together. If that line WERE to become blurred or there was ganging up, those specific admins should be reprimanded and even lose their spot on the team. Without the basic user system, there would be no administrative needed and therefore, I would like to think they would take that pretty seriously this time around. It’s just as easy to allow this rule as it is to remove this rule if problems began and I’ve realized quite recently that WH users will speak up about injustices happening to them. I would like to believe that if this became a problem, administration would listen to the users’ and take action.
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Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:54 pm

Abraxas wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:18 pm
not to nitpick but while it is considered a volunteer job, it is service work. you deal with problems that wouldn’t come up during a volunteer job, such as having to deal with trolling or other serious rule breaking (not saying that happens often). i just think having partners or family members on the same team could cause some infighting (because of said close relationships) and/or be seen as nepotism.
i know the team doesn’t vote on things that include their friends or a partner but i personally feel like over time that line could be blurred and/or forgotten
This line will not be blurred or forgotten. We are very strict about bias when voting, and currently a lot of applications have a lot of admins abstaining to ensure there isn’t bias.

Personally for me (sorry for giving my own post in response to you, I don’t want to double post!) I think it should be all or nothing. If we don’t allow partners and siblings, then we shouldn’t allow friends either, since the same complications can arise. Wolfhome today is different from Wolfhome before, and I think we have to have a little more faith in the people in our community to do good, instead of instantly assuming that negatives will spring up because of these circumstances. We should judge by their current performance and how they act, instead of just a surface level “oh they’re partners, things are bound to go wrong”.

Also Gringo is 100% correct. We are not going to let anyone do awful things to community members or other admins and turn a blind eye. Administrators are held to a higher standard for a reason, and that won’t disappear because a policy had changed.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:03 am

I've seen power couples absolutely dominate their workplace and run entire regions seamlessly. I've also seen complete strangers get promoted together, have zero personal chemistry, and blow up their office building with drama and backstabbing. If you can't trust the current staff to try and understand what kinds of personalities would be a good fit based on the rules and guidelines they've been following for years, then there's basically no hope for Wolfhome. But I think they do the best they can with the information they have at the time, and they're trying to do right by us. I'll give 'em the chance. Like Gringo said, rules can be changed as needed. We go for the jugular here, so I doubt we have much cause for worry.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:10 am

I have also had experiences where couples ganged up together while I was on the team, but even more experiences where close friends/best friends ganged up together while I was on the team. This is not just an issue between siblings or between couples, so I voted yes because this issue brought up of ganging up and bias can happen just as quickly with completely platonic relationships. So, imo, it doesn’t make sense to say no you can’t join the team because your partner is on the team and let best friends who are just as close but not partners be on the team. It has been a thing even when I first joined the team years and years ago now that you don’t vote on your friends/partners/etc. applications, so I believe that will stay in place.
While I think that they should be allowed on the team together, I DO think that bias/ganging up/favoritism needs to be heavily watched in ALL cases - not just between partners or family.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:50 am

I'm going to vote no personally because I think it'd cause issues. I've ran some things in a similar role to an admin outside of WH with my other half, and it doesn't always work out as intended too, for us and for the people we are acting out the role for. It can complicate things, and the people we were acting leaders for weren't necessarily fond of the couple aspect because we share a very similar opinion and thoughts, which may come across as unfair to them. I'm not quite sure how to explain it, maybe bias is the right word? They can feel a bit ganged up on, depending on the situation and you know what they say, you shouldn't work with your SO on the same project or on the same job. Trust me, it causes issues in real life from my experience and I think it would here too. But that's my thoughts on it, I support either way.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:19 am

I am aware that partners/siblings can’t vote on each other’s applications but to me that isn’t even the issue. I think promoting partners/siblings/even friends outside of open applications is unfair in itself. Its a clear conflict of interest in my opinion.

With that being said I would hope that the team is mature and kind enough to not be ganging up on each other. It saddens me to hear that that was happening to…apparently a lot of you while on the team. I still say yes to partners and siblings and friends on the team because at my actual job I have brought a friend to work for my company but only because she was qualified for the position and many people were interviewed before I even suggested her. If it happens in real life, it can happen here too. Just be mindful.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:23 am

I think partners and siblings should be allowed on the team together so long they go by the same rules as close friends, with the opting out of voting and such, as long as no personal business is brought up within the team and both work professionally.
I haven't had any personal experiences being ganged up on by either on the administration team like some have mentioned on this topic, so i can't really say much on that behalf, but i can completely understand how this would change your views on wanting this implemented or not. we want admins who users can trust and feel safe with. in this case, if partners/siblings are allowed, it should be monitored and of course any action taken if necessary.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:13 am

I voted yes for partners and relatives being allowed on the team. I agree with others that they should of course still have to apply, be voted on, and interview for the position without their partner having a say.

I believe the admin team should be policing themselves and staying vigilant for biases and favoritism in all aspects, so adding in these relationships should not change that. I would hope that if a particular couple became problematic, they would both be demoted or the situation otherwise handled.

I also think that if two people already on the admin team discovered they wanted to pursue a relationship, neither of them should have to step down to make that happen. If two people are solid members of the team, it seems a waste to lose one or both of them. It’s already been established that being an administrator here can lead to close friendships on the team, so it seems odd that those bonds would be limited when friendship can become biased or dramatic itself.

One caveat I would consider would be to perhaps add in a cautionary period for both if they were to break up (or have a falling out if they are relatives). I think that if there are hard feelings between them if something were to change, both parties should have to take a break from the team while they both consider if they can still work together or if one or both should step down permanently. I know breakups can’t lead to friend groups having to “pick sides,” so I would hate for the admin team to have to do that. There definitely needs to be a policy that prevents bias here and ensures that personal drama doesn’t impact the administration more than necessary. This may also apply to make sure that if one person in a relationship is demoted, their SO can’t cause problems for the team or abuse their powers to retaliate.

And finally, on the note that this is a volunteer position: while that is true, it’s still a job and carries more need for professionalism than volunteering at an animal shelter or community cleanup. However, at every job I have worked, there have been people who worked with their SO, spouse, or relatives. My wife and I work for the same department right now (and I used to work here with my brother several years ago). At my work, the policy is that couples can’t directly supervise each other. I don’t know how the admin hierarchy is structured beyond alpha/beta/gamma, but if it were a concern, I think making sure that one half doesn’t directly report to the other could be helpful. Or that one doesn’t have a say in demoting the other. I know the team is pretty small, so that may not be feasible, but just something to consider.

Overall, I don’t see this causing any more issues than friendships could. Having a team with members who can communicate with each other, work together, and put the good of Wolfhome above personal wants should be the goal. If anyone on the team is preventing that, they should be dealt with, regardless of their relationships with other administrators.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:00 am

I voted no because like any other jobs, partners and family members are not allowed. Also there is that unsaid rule about not dating where you work, just saying. And yes I know being admin isn't a paying job but still. I don't see it as a strict restriction, it's honestly the norm.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:21 am

I’m just going to say that if you don’t think people in volunteer positions IRL need to be professional, there might be a bit of a problem. I wasn’t saying what I was to diminish Wolfhome administration positions. There’s a HUGE difference between an hourly/salaries job and Chatlands Dot Com. For example, I’d expect a job at McDonalds to have schedules and if you miss a day of work without saying anything, you’re fired. If Admin A doesn’t login within 3 days without a word, they probably aren’t even going to receive a reprimand.

Yes, professionalism is key, but isn’t it not in all types of work, volunteer included? If I go to the food bank and a volunteer cusses me out, they’re in trouble. Just as if I log on to Wolfhome and an admin cusses me out, they’re in trouble. I was pointing out that the team is hardly compensated for the work they put in. The differences between Wolfhome volunteering and working a real job where you get monetary compensation in real life are vast.

Anyway, like Refresh had mentioned, if the team is going to be strict like this, then friends should not be on the team either. There are too many biases with friendships and the user base has already complained about feeling like the team are hiring friends over the rest of the user base.

What about admins who have been admining already and then get together? Will the Alphas ask them to resign? Seems a little unfair to me to remove someone from their position because they start dating after they’ve been admining for a while.

I really don’t like “all or nothing”, but this is one I know needs to be the case. No friends, no family, no partners. OR. Yes friends, yes family, yes partners.

Oh also, it’s not necessarily the norm IRL at regular jobs. I’ve worked with my mom at the following places:

Burger King, Jack In the Box, 7-11, and the Ferry here.

I know plenty of places that hire family or romantic partners.

EDIT: Even as an EMT, companies hire family or romantic partners/spouses.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:32 am

I voted no because I have managed teams where employees get into / are in relationships and there are clear bias issues every time imo. I have had to go as far as to relocate and even let go of employees who are violating policies to protect their partners.

That said, I wouldn't feel strongly either way a rule is placed but I will say that IF it is implemented that partners/family members can be on the team together, they SHOULD NOT be in different positions.
IE, partner A is an alpha and partner B is a beta.
It is the same at almost any company - you may not ever "supervise" or be above or below your partner or family member, because when it comes to making decisions in regards to your partner you categorically cannot be without bias, and a leadership team should not have to make decisions without all members because of bias.
that said, that's just my opinion and from all of my leadership experience in irl workplaces
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:48 am

Sakari wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:00 am
I voted no because like any other jobs, partners and family members are not allowed. Also there is that unsaid rule about not dating where you work, just saying. And yes I know being admin isn't a paying job but still. I don't see it as a strict restriction, it's honestly the norm.
I had a think a while back and this popped up into my mind, and my own thought process is thus:

People, regardless of relation, should be treated equally, this is includes - but is not limited to- being susceptible to the consequences of their actions.

Being a community that is extremely open minded such as this is a great place to start introducing the fact that there are people aware enough to know that if they have a relative/partner that are on the team with a form of power and authority, that they too have to be subject to the rules and regulations that are present in the chat.

Yes, special circumstances may have to arise, For example:

-when it comes to matters on voting concerning the admin in question, that any relatives/chosen family/partners will sit back and abstain from voting.
-if there is misconduct to a point where it is obvious that it causes a standstill internally, an internal unbiased committee of selected individuals who can sit and essentially assess the situation and provide advice concerning the matter should be implemented. We're talking a committee of users that are seasoned, have been a round a long while and are specifically there to advise.

That's just a couple of things that COULD be implimented to ensure and enable correct decisions to be made.

I suppose, honestly, the preconception that family and partners will always be favourited in one way or another needs to be looked at in a subjective case by case view. Clear communication and boundries need to be in place, otherwise, heads will butt more often than they have to.

Yes, there is an emotional risk there too for those involved, but that is why additional steps should be taken to ensure that the damage that is done is as little as possible. IE having the relative/chosenfamily/partners sit back away from the officials of the matter.

Yes. It's a lot of steps to take, but I feel that it will set a good example for places to see that despite connections, we as humans can still take an objective stance and find ways to make things fair for all sides.

Apologies if I don't make a lot of sense XD I just wanted to voice my thoughts <3
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:51 am

I wanted to say thank you to everyone for your thoughts on the matter, we definitely appreciate hearing from you! I wanted to let everyone know that you may now change your vote if needed. We apologize that wasn’t turned on!
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:12 pm

The problem is not strictly with couples, favoritism comes in all forms. As others have stated. And couples CAN work in the same conpany. I know plenty who do. And almost was in the same position recently while job hunting, and it was never brought up. And it’s a very reputable company.

The team already has a hard enough time getting people through training and keeping said people. The problem was with certain people in the past ganging up on others, some of which weren’t even in relationships. Don’t punish people who are interested in being on the team who are in a relationship or partnership, punish the people who gang up on others and create a negative environment to volunteer in.
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Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:19 pm

Absolutely not. Conflict of interest is easily gonna be a huge issue.
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