Project Tranquility (Revising)

Old announcement of past promotion rounds and updates to Wolfhome.
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Cherzi
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Loki wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:29 pm
Since it is out in the open, on our transparency topic nonetheless, Vukasin received a Reminder for not providing full logs of the situation and attempting to handle it themselves. They were denied a position within the Admin Team due to the concern of them attempting to handle further situations that were above their rank.

You were denied because after having asked multiple times for help with the discord and proceeding to not, as well as not informing us what you were doing exactly. The concern here was you also taking matters into your own hands, and continuing with the same attitude of not helping or explaining. We also found out after the interview where you stated you PMed an admin directly about certain things this did not happen. This made certain administrators uncomfortable.

We only denied you this round, and had every intention of accepting you both when we re-opened. We were hoping to see you guys prove us wrong and really step up, we wanted to see growth in your committee roles and help us decide if we made the right choice, we planned to possibly nominate one if not both of you when we felt confident you could handle the roles.

We adored you both and praised you both. You both always got thank you's and job well done’s. You both made Wolfhome wonderful and strived to help it grow.

Although we all understand you are both upset with us for the decision we are still willing to welcome you both back into community teams with open arms with the possibility of administrative positions in the future.
Vukasin was not given a reminder they were given a warning and told they officially were on the ban ladder, and correct me if I'm wrong, your admin applications state to not "commit major infractions" during the process so if it really was just a "Reminder" then that wouldn't have counted against them and there was no reason to reject them.

....I didn't help with server? I'm sorry what?? I literally did everything I was asked to do and even went out of my way to bring up even more ideas and each one was praised nonetheless so what is this about I didn't say what I was doing? Not to mention.... again... everything can be seen in the literal audit log... was not being secretive or destructive. All of the changes I made are STILL THERE to this day, does not look like you're too upset about it. I can even post about 20-30 screenshots of me logging regardless. And also, "We also found out after the interview where you stated you PMed an admin directly about certain things this did not happen."... do you want the screenshot of this as well? I quite literally did message them about the discord? I'm actually baffled by these responses on a post about "transparency". I'm not upset about rejection. I'm upset about no transparency.

Funny how everything I mentioned about admins badmouthing their users was avoided as well.
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Loki wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:29 pm
They were denied a position within the Admin Team due to the concern of them attempting to handle further situations that were above their rank.
Shouldn’t they have gotten the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to learn if this was just a concern? The opportunity to prove themself? I’m not really sure how you’re being so picky and choosy with an active userbase of MAYBE 40 people if I’m being generous, plus the fact that you’ve already had to demote two of the people that were recently promoted…

And actually @Ghrimelda I am pretty positive some of the alphas currently on the team sat by and watched me be wrongfully banned lol
this is me trying
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I don't plan on reading through everything since I honestly do not care much since I resigned from Beta rank a year(??? It's been awhile wow) ago.

I will say I am extremely disappointed to hear that a user had action taken against them for trying to HELP a user when an admin wasn't on?
That's honestly a huge shame and I'm genuinely disgusted that not only was action taken for it but, that was held against them in terms of a possible administrator position?
Even if they missed on logs, Alphas can do a log check to determine the situation and go from there.
I do not feel that it was right of y'all to do that.
Since when is trying to help someone and even stating they're not an administrator considered mini modding?

When I was on the team, if there were instances where it seemed like the logs didn't match up (Because we did in fact removed unrelated conversation from logs) we would ask for a log check. The user wouldn't have action taken for reporting something. It was encouraged and action like this unjustifiably taken against someone? That deters people from speaking up and reaching out to others.


I'm not even going to get into the rest of the issues that I see repeating here since I resigned from all of that for a reason, but I hope that y'all really listen this time to everyone who's outraged and feels hurt by everything this site, team, and owner have done to this community.

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Loki wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:52 pm
Scrimshaw wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:44 pm
One thing I want to know here, with precedent above all else is: were Cherzi and Vukasin involved in a discussion regarding that? If they were still in heavy consideration for a future role, would it have not made sense to have a constructive discussion about what they both did wrong, why it cost them the potential to train, and what they could do to do better and improve their standing next time? I’m not sure if just waiting for others to "do better" is the motive here. If they had your adoration and praise, wouldn’t it make more sense to take what good qualities they had and mold them into tenured administrators? The reasoning for their rejections seems rather minor in terms of what opinions the team held of them, and very solvable mistakes as well.
During the interview with Cherzi, we discussed this and I brought it to the team to discuss as I am not directly involved with the Discord. Upon this, was where Cherzi stated they received the go ahead from an admin via PM. Supposedly this did not happen and resulted in rejection.

As for Vukasin, this was fairly fresh (the week or so they applied) a user asked if they were an admin and they were not given a yes or no answer. Unfortunately due to how fresh it was, was the reason for rejection.


I do understand what you mean by “do better”. I think we ultimately just wanted more time to pass.
Maybe Vukasin’s actions were not the best to take but it seems, to me, that they showed a genuine interested in helping people, and it is possible that without any other admins online that they felt to act accordingly in order to resolve a situation? It is not the best of circumstances, but time and knowledge dedicated to people who are eager to provide a service to the community isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The AA/Trainee period is supposed to be a period of learning, is it not? We’ve promoted admins with worse priors in the past, who managed to perform successfully within the training period and become great administrators. And for those who did not, that is what the training period is for - passing and failing. The recent AA demotions are evident of this.

As for Cherzi, I do not know enough about the standards the server is held to to comment on just how out of hand they would have gotten, but I don’t like the "supposedly". If it is grounds for rejection, I feel like it should be made certain that the information at hand is true about the applicant.

Ghrimelda wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:49 pm
I understand that you were hurt, I am not going to sit here and tell you that you are not allowed to vent and express your feelings. ): But I will ask that this topic remain about positive change. We are not the same people who were on the team when the shutdown happened. We are not the people who enforced ALL of the wrongful bans and warnings that had taken place.

I still care for this site and am actively trying my best to remedy the hurt that I am able to. We do not want to forget this hurt, but we do want to move forward from the burnt rubble and starting building anew. In order to do that, we need help.
You guys are going to have to understand that some people do not want to be, nor do they owe you any, positive discussion here. To many people the majority of the team has not proven they are any different than they were before and they are frustrated about that. I don’t think it is right to criticize people for having words that are harsh or things you may not want to necessarily hear, and I think insinuating they’re being negative and that is an inherently bad thing is not the message to be sending here, respectfully. If you are going to facilitate discussion it is important to understand that not all of it is going to be inherently positive until people are reassured that this behavior isn’t just the cycle turning unto itself all over again.
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@Cherzi please send me screenshots via DM. I will further look into this. I stated before I was not actively involved in the discord and only going by word of mouth but I will look into this further, just be patient with me due to my hiatus.

@Hocus Looking back, I agree with you 100% and we should have given them a chance. Not because of this backlash as I have thought about it prior as well.

@Marsie I apologize that you feel this way and we are going to work forward to correct the issues that have been presented.

"No one bad is ever truly bad, no one good is ever truly good."

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I do not think it is a good precedent to set to just go off of word of mouth for anything that results in potential action taken against a user, whether it’s not being taken into consideration for a promotion or a ban or what have you. I think behavior like that is what caused all of these problems in the first place.
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Scrimshaw wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:13 pm
I do not think it is a good precedent to set to just go off of word of mouth for anything that results in potential action taken against a user, whether it’s not being taken into consideration for a promotion or a ban or what have you. I think behavior like that is what caused all of these problems in the first place.
I agree and I apologize for the poor wording as I should have stated “facts I had at the time” my brain is currently mush.

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I'm gonna tally what we've brought up so far, so we have a clear understanding of what's going on here

Primary concerns seem to be:
lack of apologies and reparations for people treated and banned wrongly
reuse of ideas while packaging it as new ideas
dissatisfaction with what little progress seems to have been made
repeat instances of administrators having negative or otherwise subpar things to say about community members past and present, without basis
promotions being denied for lackluster or unclear reasons
concerns that people will not be listened to and we are going to begin this whole cycle again

Proposed solutions:
Individually directed apologies to wronged members
Re-discussing and revising project tranquility
Creating a structured time management plan for projects
Having more at length discussions with rejected applicants
Further revising prior bans/history and revoking wrongful bans

I may be missing a few things. If I am lmk but I think this is the tally so far

-edited to add revoking wrongful bans
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Scrimshaw wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:32 pm
I'm gonna tally what we've brought up so far, so we have a clear understanding of what's going on here

Primary concerns seem to be:
lack of apologies and reparations for people treated and banned wrongly
reuse of ideas while packaging it as new ideas
dissatisfaction with what little progress seems to have been made
repeat instances of administrators having negative or otherwise subpar things to say about community members past and present, without basis
promotions being denied for lackluster or unclear reasons
concerns that people will not be listened to and we are going to begin this whole cycle again

Proposed solutions:
Individually directed apologies to wronged members
Re-discussing and revising project tranquility
Creating a structured time management plan for projects
Having more at length discussions with rejected applicants


I may be missing a few things. If I am lmk but I think this is the tally so far

thank you, its better worded than what i have on the one i am working on.

solutions:
- reviewing past & current bans/ warnings


i want to say thats the only difference rn? im still combing back through everything to make sure nothing is missed! id like to continue the conversation on this topic but for those who would feel more comfortable talking on discord, mine is always open~ MotherOfCrows#9879
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Vuk brings up a good point in how Cherzi's claim was glossed over. In fact, every mentioned instance of administration badmouthing current and ex-users and their characters as people hasn't really received any dedicated response. Is there anyone who wants to address this?
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Scrimshaw wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:11 pm
Vuk brings up a good point in how Cherzi's claim was glossed over. In fact, every mentioned instance of administration badmouthing current and ex-users and their characters as people hasn't really received any dedicated response. Is there anyone who wants to address this?
We are currently actively going to reach out to all individuals within the next day or two as it’s getting late! All claims are going to be followed up or if you beat us to it DM one of the alphas.

"No one bad is ever truly bad, no one good is ever truly good."

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Putting this placeholder here, to let you all know that I am composing my reply. Everything came really fast so I am going through each one since my last comment. Please understand that I am not ignoring this, but I have been carefully reading everything and writing on a google doc at the same time to make sure everything that has been said so far is accounted for.
I am in pain due to personal reasons at the moment and it is late for me, so I apologize if this takes some time to type up.
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maybe I'm just cynical rn (genuinely not trying to be malicious) and I've admittedly been extremely detached from CL since the events of last year

but I feel like these kinds of WHF threads repeat themselves...I'm seeing the same points being made by both admin & subordinate parties that have already been made a plethora of times prior over the past 6-7+ years. That is problematic to me. It shouldnt have to become so repetitive and it'd be nice to see things be even moderately different for once :[

and this sort of vicious cycle kind of goes to show that there is evidently a lot fundamentally wrong here. not just on WH alone but with the way CL is operating as a whole. shit's exhausting

Edit: secondly, while I'm on the topic I guess...perhaps it isnt something a WH alpha can answer but I'm still curious to know if the Guardians are still playing any role in the overall functionality of CL? I have not seen them be actively present in a hot minute and I'm uncertain of what duties, if any at this point, they are still expected to carry out (and/or if those duties are even being fulfilled). I almost feel that there is virtually no benefit coming from it at this point in time but maybe that is just the perception I have with what's available right now.
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Cherzi - I want to reply to you, but as Loki already requested for you to DM him, I would really feel more comfortable in the position that I am in to allow this to get handled. Please do know that I do have a google doc open that picks everything you have commented so far and clarifies everything. So at this time, I am making it known that I do not want to overstep, I do not want to harass and I do not want to do something unless it is reviewed and approved by someone else before I post or have it presented to you, as I do not want to cause anything harmful or have a reply that is not appropriate. I notice you, I notice your concerns, you are valid to express your feelings and I respect them.

Hocus - I agree with you fully, and I am sorry that you were wrongfully banned, but I also will say I advocated that your ban be overturned.. I was not a part of the team when you were banned, nor was I on the team when the shutdown happened, so yes I am definitely frustrated with how things were handled. I do think that there are so many people who have applied who could have been able to redeem themselves if we just could give them guidance. I take this to the heart and definitely advocate for what you have said here. I do believe with the right guidance and the right mindset, people can be helped and aided to be the admin they wanted when applying.

Valauros - Same thing as my reply to Hocus, I do really stand by what you have said. I really appreciate you bringing it up as well, it is something that I really want to look into and voice as a change alongside you all. So much that has been replied here is something that I have been nonstop looking into and reflecting on. There are so many page views on this topic and so many are from me continuously coming to read and really try to grasp everything expressed on this topic.

Marsie - I am so truly sorry, I know I have an awful habit of apologizing, I know it gets us nowhere to continuously apologize. You are valid for how you feel, and I cannot say much on this other than my heart goes out to you as making things uncomfortable for people is something that deeply roots into my feelings. I appreciate you coming to express those feelings as it still helps us understand where things are going wrong, went wrong, and that people are really upset and just want to see things being done right.
Thank you for wishing us the best, this still is something very impactful.

Scrimshaw - Yes you are right, that training is supposed to be a trial of error or success. I do believe that more people should be given opportunities to learn and grow if they really show interest in being apart. I agree that there will be positivity and negativity here, I am fully receptive to it all. I want to do the right things and approach this the most appropriate and in depth way that I am able to. Thank you so much for actively being a part of this so far, and responding a ton in the comments, it is very helpful, and insightful. I fully agree that there are going to be things that impact us roughly, but it’s better that we hear it so that we can make the needed changes and that we really grasp the situations and concerns of everyone.
Thank you for the tally of everything, all of which I had, so the double check was really helpful! I am looking into everything from your very first comment and the one with the tallies! I apologize for the no update so far, but know that I am doing my best working through these concerns trying to elaborate, research, or present a way to go about it. Your solutions section was helpful as well!

Our first priority is to have individually directed apologies for any member that was wronged.
I am sure I have made it known a few times, but I was not involved with the shut down nor was I on the team so this is something that I will have to wait for. <3

Kain - I cannot speak for most of this as again I wasn’t a part of the things that transpired, but like everyone else, you are also valid for how you feel. I do stand by what you said on stating the members are what builds the site and aids us in the way things should be. I truly did not intend for it to blanket anything, but it came out to be that way and I take accountability for that. We are actively revising this whole thing based on each and every feedback given. It is perfectly understandable and acceptable that most won’t return and most aren’t going to believe in the goals we have set. We can only make these attempted steps. Time and time again it has failed, I get that. This is still something that I am working for and attempting to make these needed changes happen as we do care for this site. I am okay with some not returning, what I care about are the voices raising these concerns that I am able to recognize and reflect on and being able put that towards my goals for Wolfhome.

Vukasin - I really do not like how things are being worded here that seem like you did not announce you were not admin, I remember a lot and I do know you made it known that you were not on the team but was willing to pass along information since the member coming to you felt comfortable with asking you for help. I believe that is a really good quality to have and I do believe in your capabilities that could have been shown on this team. I will not directly come speak about some of the things stated that were on a personal level for you and I. I am uncomfortable when it comes to something personal like my direct apology to you and Cherzi.
I do not want to say something inappropriate. I am taking in what you are saying and I am respecting these feelings, I do not wish to sit here and be only defending myself, but rather listen and respond accordingly the best way I know how to at hours and in stressful situations like this.

Some Baetyl members are a part of Wolfhome discord and some of us here on wolfhome are a part of their discord. We do not wish to tear each other down, and those concerns were already discussed together. The administration of Baetyl are always welcome to show concern of anything that we are doing, just like we would be able to show concerns about something they are doing. We adore the Baetyl team, some of whom are dear friends. These things were resolved, credit is being given when asked, and credit is always willing to be given if they see it is needed if I do not catch it firsthand! I absolutely adore everything that Baetyl has to offer, and I absolutely adore everything they have done, they are a huge inspiration for taking the steps we want to take as well.


I am perfectly okay being held accountable for anything. I am making room for my personal growth and taking in what needs to be changed about myself, as I do know it is always needed and I am welcome to people telling me what I need to change within myself.
There are things I am not able to do and recognize by myself, but I am always welcome to anyone coming directly to me stating to me what I need to change about myself, and what I do wrong.


I have free time tomorrow, I get started on working on what needs to be worked on.
It is 2 am and I am so stressfully exhausted.

edit* Thank you Laika for commenting, I will make sure that your reply gets addressed as well, as of now I really don't want to address that as I am not sure, and I am very scatter brained at the moment. I do see and notice you and your comment though!

edit 2* some wording additions/grammar corrections, clarified what i meant in terms of what I did not stand for regarding Vukasin.
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I’m going to say a few things and I’m not going to single people out but if it fits I want you to pay close attention to this.

Being an admin is a volunteer position. It is a job. This job does not take precedent for, or perhaps even replace, your offline events and life. No one is expecting anyone to fundamentally change yourselves as people (unless you’ve got some fucked up things you’ve been saying, but at that point those people need to just leave the team for the betterment of it and seek some help). Being on the team isn’t, and should never be, a state of being for people. It is completely reasonable for you to like your job, or want to take pride in your job, but there is a point where professionalism needs to be prevalent over individualism within the team. You are all a representative of the whole, the collective of Wolfhome’s team. Individualism is the last thing we need to be thinking about right now. It does not matter to people that you aren’t trying to be the problem, it matters that the functionality of the team is a problem. There is a lack of professional identity here, namely in how people comment on how some of these problems occurred before their time. This, while I understand the point trying to be made, factually does not matter. Everyone on the team is a representative of that team and the administration’s history. Those problems still carry on today and are reflected in the efforts made to change Wolfhome, so it is impossible to isolate yourselves from it and deflect blame. Being on the Wolfhome administrative team is an entirely voluntary action and living your lives and being who you are is often not. I want to encourage people to really ask themselves why they’re on the team and what they think they have contributed in the year since all this happened. Are you here to change things? Are you here for personal gratification? What is your motive, and who is, truthfully, having to do most of the legwork right now? I am not trying to say that there haven’t been attempts made in the past year to fix things, and to bring more transparency. There have. But the amount that has been done does not reflect the numbers the team seems to need. This feels like the efforts of at MOST three people, give or take one. And no, I’m not counting people who give opinions. I am counting people who introduce proposals for policies, are writing these things down for the public, and giving public input/answering questions to better make these goals clear. I don’t think I’m asking anything particularly offensive here. If you want change, if you truly want to contribute to it, I think people need to look inward and understand what is really motivating them here and if they truly have the time to give to Wolfhome. Sometimes the best thing you can do for something you care about is let it go so someone else can utilize those tools and make active change.



On another note, I don’t think people need to redeem themselves to the team. They either are good enough by value of their merit to have an opportunity or they are not a person who is suitable for community roles on this site. The admins here emphasize often that they are only human and make mistakes, but it doesn’t seem like that sentiment is extended towards applicants often. It is especially damning knowing some of the priors of the people on the team currently. If the baseline we want to set here is that everyone is human, it should be going both ways. And honestly, these people have less to answer for than the administration currently.
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