Forum administration?

This section is for posting questions regarding Wolfhome, workings or details, or simply needing to contact one of the administration. Bans or warnings given, whether temporary or permanent, will NOT be discussed, and topics containing such material will be immediately deleted.
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Totem
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Sat May 30, 2020 5:43 am

I have a question, this isn’t to start a riot or anything but I genuinely am confused here!

I have seen a few posts that really should be removed, they aren’t. I have been told... “well they weren’t reported” as the reason when I say something months later.

I’ve started NOT reporting posts out of curiosity to see if this is the case..

Are forum posts only handled IF AND WHEN they are reported? Are forum mods monitoring the forums at all like they used to or is it purely report based?

I get we should report issues but isn’t the point of moderators to watch the forum and nab stuff before there is an argument etc?

Maybe I’m wrong and staff is just not enough or not active enough.
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Sat May 30, 2020 10:45 am

So, you have seen posts that need to be reported, not reported them, and now are asking why they weren't addressed? It is not the forum team's responsibility to monitor and censor every post from a community of what is mostly adult users. That was the purpose of us reducing the team and backing off on the stricter rules, we trust you guys to partner with us in this project! This community is only going to work if we work together.
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Totem
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Sat May 30, 2020 11:18 am

The approach doesn’t seem to be working... I forgot this was put in place a bit ago.

My concern is that while yes it should be the responsibility to report poor behavior and posts, there are of course ones that would go under the radar leaving user base wondering if it’s acceptable? Especially when an admin comments after said post..

I know you guys are active.. I also understand while yes we ARE adults. I can gather posts together in a bit and PM you. Might be easier.

Again- I genuinely DID NOT want to start a scene but actually just wondering.

I think know backing off for warnings etc is GREAT but I think from having just the user base report is causing inconsistencies?

I see user A Post something and they not get in trouble. User B posts as well and they do.

I guess that’s what I’m trying to get at. I’m a bit disappointed in the reply I got but I’m hoping this will help clear up a bit.

Edit:

Also if a certain post bothers multiple users multiple people can’t report it, I’m not going to reply to it but if I report it and it was already reported it’s going to obviously tell me no. So if multiple people are upset by said post... it can linger on DTP. is there a way around that? If that makes sense
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Sat May 30, 2020 11:36 am

i just want to make sure i'm processing this correctly: did you just say it's not your job to do your job because the community is supposed to do your job for you because they're adults even though forum staff is supposed to be monitoring the forums because that is the PURPOSE of the team

lenient tactics is not an excuse for negligence
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Sat May 30, 2020 1:10 pm

Is there some sort of middle ground here? This was off the table years ago, and I'm just throwing an idea out there, but is it perhaps possible to start looking into moderators who are specific to the forum and moderators who are specific to the chat? There would be a lot to work out here, but could help with some of the potential growing pains come CL2020 launch.

People who want to do both should still be able to do both. The forum admin rank can be held by those who are on both chat and forum team and have a lot of experience being on the team. It's something I've been noticing with a lot of large Discord servers for games and art communities, that there will be Discord mods and there will be game/roleplay mods.

Maybe it's more of a post CL2020 launch discussion, but it might help in the immediate future when things start to pick up in activity. And help the team be prepared for the future (and will hopefully help with burnout to have certain people focused on certain departments only, should there be any)

It's not a perfect plan, and I have always had reservations about department specific people (cross communication between the departments / having an easily update-able platform to do so, being a challenge as a big one), but if there is a NDA to sign along with the COC and there was a shared sub-section where these reports could be communicated, it could help.

A more short term solution would be an open way of communicating when moderators are taking a look through topics to make sure things are okay. One thing we have at my workplace, which has been immensely helpful, is on a bi-weekly basis, we have a particular person on the team to talk to about website updates (and it rotates through 11 or so people). Maybe something like this would help behind the scenes? I don't think the community would need to know who has what weeks, or what times/days specifically the designated mod is skimming through things, but maybe an open line of communication that something like this is in place might help the community to understand that while there is a plan in place, that it is lenient to avoid people feeling overly censored or watched?

Just some thoughts!
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Sat May 30, 2020 1:20 pm

If I'm not mistaken, what Pyr is saying is that the admins are trying to be more lenient so that they aren't being accused of "silencing" the userbase, and they are relying on the userbase to be mature to help them be lenient.

Is there any way to allow multiple reports on a post? I think it's important to establish the level of upset caused by a post, even though I don't think it makes sense to rely on quantity over subject matter.

I love the idea of separating out duties, as mentioned by Tak, but alas. Doesn't look like we're headed that way.
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Sat May 30, 2020 2:56 pm

Boy do I not envy the admins lately...when they strike down hard on people breaking the rules and act independantly, they're accused of abusing their authority and silencing the userbase. Yet when they don't strike down hard on rule breakers they're accused of neglectance and laziness...

As for the topic at hand...I think part of the reason the admins don't just remove posts left and right, even if the content is questionable, is down to the admins (as far as I'm aware) having to discuss between themselves whether a post should be removed or not to avoid individual admins going all vigilante on the userbase.

Besides, the admins browse the forums on a regular basis just like the rest of us do. If they find something they find distasteful, I'm inclined to believe they take action as appropriate.
Spoiler! :
On a side not, and this is just a personal opinion, so don't take this as me stating a fact...I think a lot of these issues simply boil down to different people having different views on what they consider inappropriate or not. User A finding the content of User B's posts inappropriate, doesn't necesarily mean that it is, basically...
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Sat May 30, 2020 4:03 pm

I think our point is that they need to moderate without being overly authoritative, a balance. When x gets in trouble but y doesn’t when they do the same thing, you see the problem?

Opinions can be different, sure, but the ability to post them when it comes to social injustices and phobias of race, culture, religion, identity or orientation, then it needs to be handled.
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Sat May 30, 2020 6:27 pm

Frezzi wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 2:56 pm
As for the topic at hand...I think part of the reason the admins don't just remove posts left and right, even if the content is questionable, is down to the admins (as far as I'm aware) having to discuss between themselves whether a post should be removed or not to avoid individual admins going all vigilante on the userbase.

Besides, the admins browse the forums on a regular basis just like the rest of us do. If they find something they find distasteful, I'm inclined to believe they take action as appropriate
I do get what you're saying, I really do.. I personally was someone who was AGAINST going more lax back when it was brought up a few years back. I do for sure see improvements in regards to things I did not think would work, however I for sure think some things need a bit of tweaking...

I love the reminders > warning > warning > warning> NG > ban etc

I do not like the amount of lax I am seeing in regards to certain posts I am seeing I am seeing certain things and then it not really being handled especially if an admin comments right after. It's left me with not really a bad taste in my mouth but a bit of curiosity in the sense of if they are just not handling things unless reported now.

I do think it is important to recognize at this stage before wolfhome gets more traction w cl2020 to see what is working, what needs improvement, and what needs to be removed etc. I hope that makes sense?
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Sun May 31, 2020 9:32 pm

Back when this forum was much more active, it would be highly unreasonable to ask forum staff to sift through every single post that was posted.
The forums aren't nearly as active now, and would probably prove a simple task for a team dedicated to it.

I understand the other side though, in wanting to provide freedoms and not minimod every single post.

P.S. Just report a bad post.
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Pride

Sun May 31, 2020 9:42 pm

I plan on responding to this question too soon once I get my thoughts organised. A lot of my stance is going to come from that I think there are posts out there on this forum that are not direct violations of the rules but people find them distasteful because they either misinterpret it or they disagree. There are definitely posts in this forum that I can consider distasteful but not against rules to post.

But I will expand my thoughts on this later today or tomorrow

But yes, emphasis on reporting posts anyway so we can look into whether or not it is a rule violation
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Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:34 am

To directly answer your question, Totem, the answer is no, we don't only handle posts if they're reported. Forum mods and admins can independently bring posts up for discussion that they see themselves that we think is questionable, and we also go by reports. I hope that clears that up for starters!
AutumnRain wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 1:20 pm
Is there any way to allow multiple reports on a post? I think it's important to establish the level of upset caused by a post, even though I don't think it makes sense to rely on quantity over subject matter.
I'm also in the same boat, I think subject matter has more weight over quantity. But in saying that, I think it would be useful to implement a tool on this forum for people to report a post multiple times. I wasn't actually aware that you couldnt report a post multiple times, so hopefully phpbb is capable of implementing something like this. Now it sort of leads on to my point that i sort of touched on above...

Outright posts that are discriminatory no questions asked will 110% be taken care of. My views personally have always been 1) If a post is negatively impacting human rights in any way, it is not acceptable and 2) if it is directly targeting and/or malicious towards any group of people then it is not acceptable either. For example: 'i hate (insert race here) because xyz' - obviously thats just an example but that's a pretty clear cut case of something we don't allow on the forums!

Controversial posts are tricky because its so broad and causes arguments. I personally want to foster an environment here, as most of us are mature adults, where people can express their views (as long as they dont infringe on what i've just said above) without the administration having to shut them down entirely. If you want to ask questions about that view (not in a mean way of course), then by all means! Sometimes hearing someone elses point of view will help understand why they are feeling this particular way - that doesn't mean you have to agree with someone but it fosters a much healthier environment. Some people express their views in a way that may read differently (boy havent we all done that at some point!) that what we intend. Sometimes assumptions are made about posts when people dont even specify specific factors, so 1 person reads it one way but others read it completely differently. This is why that is so tricky, and that is also why things take a while to be discussed and handled (if it is deemed against the rules).

Something that I would love to see sometime, is a feature and system where a forum moderator or admin can be the 'case handler' of the reports and the one responsible for updating parties involved and making sure a rule violation is handled and it should be viewable by the reporters (if we're talking a post with multiple reports here) who the case handler is. Sort of like how problem tickets are, how we have a case handler.

Anyway, I hope my post makes sense. I tried my best to answer as clearly as possible. I also don't want to say that we want to see people arguing or dog piling on people they dont agree with. It's a tricky one because we don't want to shut people down and we want to be a neutral as possible and not take sides.
Also please dont hold off on reporting posts, sometimes im blind as a bat and miss things as well.

Please let us know if you have specific suggestions how to improve the system too. I can already see a few above and I also threw one in! It's definitely not perfect but we can work on it.
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Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:10 pm

I definitely agree on allowing multiple reports on one post, and thank you for taking your time and explaining exactly how reports are handled. I do agree the administrators and moderators should be completely unbiased on both sides - however when it’s obviously causing upset when nothing is done, that’s not viewed as unbias by many, it’s viewed as favoring or ignoring a situation a lot of the time.

I think the main thing is though if a ton of users are reading one post a certain way and getting upset by it - then there’s an issue with that post to the portion of the community that needs to be addressed by either the administration or the original poster, if they wish to do so so they can either a) clarify themselves and/or b) apologize if their post did come off that way. If they don’t want to be involved in the discussion, instead the administration needs to be stepping in and saying “hey we’re discussing the above post(s) because we can see it’s causing upset, please redirect this topic to it’s original purpose, we’ll have feedback for everyone involved soon once we’re done discussing it.” You can even do mediation and help the OP or others clarify their point if necessary.

The whole point of not reporting was to see if it would be handled, since it was believed moderators handled things without prompt if it was obviously causing issues, it wasn’t to just not report. I think people know they should logically report - the thing is others wanted to see if it would be handled if it wasn’t, even though it was DTP to many.
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Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:33 pm

Thank you for explaining further, I wasn't 100% sure what all was going on in regards to posts anymore. I will however grab a few posts that are more recent and pm you later today.. I would love to see a feature that allows multiple people to report I think it would for sure help a lot with specific posts that are bordering but clearly causing distress in the community. If that isn't an option for multiple reports I'm unsure what an alternative would be rather than messaging a forum mod/admin that is active since of course things do get discussed..

I know its for sure tricky to be lax and also hard for that middle ground I guess- I do know things can be controversial, everyone on here is located around the world and different parts of the US grew up differently and of course has different opinions. I think the biggest thing is not adding to the fire when people see things they don't agree with per say.. healthy debate is great it's when things go sour or are on the brink of it.

I know previously with how active the team was it was fairly easy to catch most things/posts but also reports hence why I did ask
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