Project Tranquility (Revising)

[Cherzi]

Since it is out in the open, on our transparency topic nonetheless, Vukasin received a Reminder for not providing full logs of the situation and attempting to handle it themselves. They were denied a position within the Admin Team due to the concern of them attempting to handle further situations that were above their rank.

You were denied because after having asked multiple times for help with the discord and proceeding to not, as well as not informing us what you were doing exactly. The concern here was you also taking matters into your own hands, and continuing with the same attitude of not helping or explaining. We also found out after the interview where you stated you PMed an admin directly about certain things this did not happen. This made certain administrators uncomfortable.

We only denied you this round, and had every intention of accepting you both when we re-opened. We were hoping to see you guys prove us wrong and really step up, we wanted to see growth in your committee roles and help us decide if we made the right choice, we planned to possibly nominate one if not both of you when we felt confident you could handle the roles.

We adored you both and praised you both. You both always got thank you's and job well done’s. You both made Wolfhome wonderful and strived to help it grow.

Although we all understand you are both upset with us for the decision we are still willing to welcome you both back into community teams with open arms with the possibility of administrative positions in the future.

Vukasin was not given a reminder they were given a warning and told they officially were on the ban ladder, and correct me if I'm wrong, your admin applications state to not "commit major infractions" during the process so if it really was just a "Reminder" then that wouldn't have counted against them and there was no reason to reject them.

....I didn't help with server? I'm sorry what?? I literally did everything I was asked to do and even went out of my way to bring up even more ideas and each one was praised nonetheless so what is this about I didn't say what I was doing? Not to mention.... again... everything can be seen in the literal audit log... was not being secretive or destructive. All of the changes I made are STILL THERE to this day, does not look like you're too upset about it. I can even post about 20-30 screenshots of me logging regardless. And also, "We also found out after the interview where you stated you PMed an admin directly about certain things this did not happen."... do you want the screenshot of this as well? I quite literally did message them about the discord? I'm actually baffled by these responses on a post about "transparency". I'm not upset about rejection. I'm upset about no transparency.

Funny how everything I mentioned about admins badmouthing their users was avoided as well.

[Hocus]

They were denied a position within the Admin Team due to the concern of them attempting to handle further situations that were above their rank.

Shouldn’t they have gotten the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to learn if this was just a concern? The opportunity to prove themself? I’m not really sure how you’re being so picky and choosy with an active userbase of MAYBE 40 people if I’m being generous, plus the fact that you’ve already had to demote two of the people that were recently promoted…

And actually @Ghrimelda I am pretty positive some of the alphas currently on the team sat by and watched me be wrongfully banned lol

[Horiyoko]

I don't plan on reading through everything since I honestly do not care much since I resigned from Beta rank a year(??? It's been awhile wow) ago.

I will say I am extremely disappointed to hear that a user had action taken against them for trying to HELP a user when an admin wasn't on?
That's honestly a huge shame and I'm genuinely disgusted that not only was action taken for it but, that was held against them in terms of a possible administrator position?
Even if they missed on logs, Alphas can do a log check to determine the situation and go from there.
I do not feel that it was right of y'all to do that.
Since when is trying to help someone and even stating they're not an administrator considered mini modding?

When I was on the team, if there were instances where it seemed like the logs didn't match up (Because we did in fact removed unrelated conversation from logs) we would ask for a log check. The user wouldn't have action taken for reporting something. It was encouraged and action like this unjustifiably taken against someone? That deters people from speaking up and reaching out to others.


I'm not even going to get into the rest of the issues that I see repeating here since I resigned from all of that for a reason, but I hope that y'all really listen this time to everyone who's outraged and feels hurt by everything this site, team, and owner have done to this community.

[Foxlatte]

This is disappointing to read. I was contemplating on a full return but I don’t think I am comfortable to do so. I have made my fair share of mistakes too, but I just don’t think the way things are now makes room for people to grow and forever punishes people for their wrongdoings.

I wish you guys luck anyway and all the best wishes.

[VESSEL]

One thing I want to know here, with precedent above all else is: were Cherzi and Vukasin involved in a discussion regarding that? If they were still in heavy consideration for a future role, would it have not made sense to have a constructive discussion about what they both did wrong, why it cost them the potential to train, and what they could do to do better and improve their standing next time? I’m not sure if just waiting for others to "do better" is the motive here. If they had your adoration and praise, wouldn’t it make more sense to take what good qualities they had and mold them into tenured administrators? The reasoning for their rejections seems rather minor in terms of what opinions the team held of them, and very solvable mistakes as well.

During the interview with Cherzi, we discussed this and I brought it to the team to discuss as I am not directly involved with the Discord. Upon this, was where Cherzi stated they received the go ahead from an admin via PM. Supposedly this did not happen and resulted in rejection.

As for Vukasin, this was fairly fresh (the week or so they applied) a user asked if they were an admin and they were not given a yes or no answer. Unfortunately due to how fresh it was, was the reason for rejection.


I do understand what you mean by “do better”. I think we ultimately just wanted more time to pass.

Maybe Vukasin’s actions were not the best to take but it seems, to me, that they showed a genuine interested in helping people, and it is possible that without any other admins online that they felt to act accordingly in order to resolve a situation? It is not the best of circumstances, but time and knowledge dedicated to people who are eager to provide a service to the community isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The AA/Trainee period is supposed to be a period of learning, is it not? We’ve promoted admins with worse priors in the past, who managed to perform successfully within the training period and become great administrators. And for those who did not, that is what the training period is for - passing and failing. The recent AA demotions are evident of this.

As for Cherzi, I do not know enough about the standards the server is held to to comment on just how out of hand they would have gotten, but I don’t like the "supposedly". If it is grounds for rejection, I feel like it should be made certain that the information at hand is true about the applicant.

I understand that you were hurt, I am not going to sit here and tell you that you are not allowed to vent and express your feelings. ): But I will ask that this topic remain about positive change. We are not the same people who were on the team when the shutdown happened. We are not the people who enforced ALL of the wrongful bans and warnings that had taken place.

I still care for this site and am actively trying my best to remedy the hurt that I am able to. We do not want to forget this hurt, but we do want to move forward from the burnt rubble and starting building anew. In order to do that, we need help.

You guys are going to have to understand that some people do not want to be, nor do they owe you any, positive discussion here. To many people the majority of the team has not proven they are any different than they were before and they are frustrated about that. I don’t think it is right to criticize people for having words that are harsh or things you may not want to necessarily hear, and I think insinuating they’re being negative and that is an inherently bad thing is not the message to be sending here, respectfully. If you are going to facilitate discussion it is important to understand that not all of it is going to be inherently positive until people are reassured that this behavior isn’t just the cycle turning unto itself all over again.

[Loki]

@Cherzi please send me screenshots via DM. I will further look into this. I stated before I was not actively involved in the discord and only going by word of mouth but I will look into this further, just be patient with me due to my hiatus.

@Hocus Looking back, I agree with you 100% and we should have given them a chance. Not because of this backlash as I have thought about it prior as well.

@Marsie I apologize that you feel this way and we are going to work forward to correct the issues that have been presented.

[VESSEL]

I do not think it is a good precedent to set to just go off of word of mouth for anything that results in potential action taken against a user, whether it’s not being taken into consideration for a promotion or a ban or what have you. I think behavior like that is what caused all of these problems in the first place.

[Loki]

I do not think it is a good precedent to set to just go off of word of mouth for anything that results in potential action taken against a user, whether it’s not being taken into consideration for a promotion or a ban or what have you. I think behavior like that is what caused all of these problems in the first place.

I agree and I apologize for the poor wording as I should have stated “facts I had at the time” my brain is currently mush.

[VESSEL]

I'm gonna tally what we've brought up so far, so we have a clear understanding of what's going on here

Primary concerns seem to be:
lack of apologies and reparations for people treated and banned wrongly
reuse of ideas while packaging it as new ideas
dissatisfaction with what little progress seems to have been made
repeat instances of administrators having negative or otherwise subpar things to say about community members past and present, without basis
promotions being denied for lackluster or unclear reasons
concerns that people will not be listened to and we are going to begin this whole cycle again

Proposed solutions:
Individually directed apologies to wronged members
Re-discussing and revising project tranquility
Creating a structured time management plan for projects
Having more at length discussions with rejected applicants
Further revising prior bans/history and revoking wrongful bans

I may be missing a few things. If I am lmk but I think this is the tally so far

-edited to add revoking wrongful bans

[Lorien]

I'm gonna tally what we've brought up so far, so we have a clear understanding of what's going on here

Primary concerns seem to be:
lack of apologies and reparations for people treated and banned wrongly
reuse of ideas while packaging it as new ideas
dissatisfaction with what little progress seems to have been made
repeat instances of administrators having negative or otherwise subpar things to say about community members past and present, without basis
promotions being denied for lackluster or unclear reasons
concerns that people will not be listened to and we are going to begin this whole cycle again

Proposed solutions:
Individually directed apologies to wronged members
Re-discussing and revising project tranquility
Creating a structured time management plan for projects
Having more at length discussions with rejected applicants


I may be missing a few things. If I am lmk but I think this is the tally so far

thank you, its better worded than what i have on the one i am working on.

solutions:
- reviewing past & current bans/ warnings


i want to say thats the only difference rn? im still combing back through everything to make sure nothing is missed! id like to continue the conversation on this topic but for those who would feel more comfortable talking on discord, mine is always open~ MotherOfCrows#9879

[Bodolf]

As much as I didn't want to have to get back on here, I guess I have to. Cherzi was so kind enough to voice my opinion thus far, but I'm stepping up now.

Since it is out in the open, on our transparency topic nonetheless, Vukasin received a Reminder for not providing full logs of the situation and attempting to handle it themselves. They were denied a position within the Admin Team due to the concern of them attempting to handle further situations that were above their rank.

This is quite funny to me. I sent logs, albeit they weren't from when I entered the room, but from when the conversation with the user about the situation started as I could've told said staff member who, by the way, did not reply when I gave them the logs, what room it was in. I made it clear that I was not an Administrator, but I'll do my best to help by also passing on information in case they couldn't for any reason. This is exactly what I sent the user about the situation;

[11:05pm] Vukasin: I've heard. I'm sorry people were harassing y'all. Could you tell me who it was and what was said/done? Technically I'm not staff but I'll help how I can and/or pass the information on

I never once claimed to have tried to handle it myself nor that I was an Administrator. After I submitted my application, I was approached by a current Administrator about my infraction. I was questioned about it and if I could do it again, would I do it differently. This obviously fell on deaf ears as no matter how I would've responded, the end result would've been the same. But here is my response to said question;

►Tony◄ — 11/28/2022 4:45 PM
I definitely would've gone about it differently. If there were no admins on like in the situation I would suggest for them to submit a problem ticket/send an admin a chat or forum PM with logs or screenshots and to use the ignore feature. That is what I would personally do myself and is what I know the suggested course of action to be. It was a moment of forgetfulness that I honestly kind of feel bad for.
At the time I didn't think I was mini-modding but after I received the message I totally understand how it looks.

I truly did not think I was mini-modding and was made to believe that I was. I know I wasn't. I was just genuinely trying to help a fellow user and their friends who were being harassed by other users in gathering evidence to send a current Administrator.

Show me. Show me where we were praised. Was it behind closed doors for only Administrators to see? Because it wasn't said to us personally. We resigned for being rejected for said silly reasons on top of being treated with no respect. As we were only on the Relations Team, we felt ignored. The only response we got was from a current Administrator who dm'd us on Discord with basically the exact same words as an apology for acting the way they did. Reading it gave me "I don't want people to dislike me. I need everyone to like me" vibes as that was almost an exact quote from the dm.

The whole incident with Cherzi and Discord just blows my mind because they shared every idea and thought they had to make the server look and run way better. However, some of their ideas were shut down almost immediately while most were given the a-okay. Yet a single Administrator gets to change how it looks to match a whole other chatsites Discord. And takes the credit for it. It's wild here now a days. The backhandedness, the dodging/avoiding, the sly remarks. It all goes unpunished for Administrators Gamma and up it seems. I only know of one recent Helper demotion that was valid and called for as they talked bad to me, about me and other users to other Administrators, current and resigned.

I would also like to make it apparent that Cherzi pointed out that they were badmouthed by a current Administrator and a demoted Administrator yet it was glossed over like it wasn't even said. It seems like not everyone is getting the respect of attention that the current Administration is claiming to give. That or they just don't want their bad choices being brought in the light.

Which brings me to yet another point! I see that you guys' are mentioning that the Wolfhome discord server has had drastic improvement and changes and blah blah blah, taking credit for the things I did (Did I mention an administrator got promoted over MY and VUKASIN's idea to revamp the Wolfhome discord and bring it back to life?) yet I was told by a fellow (demoted) administrator who was talking to a (current) administrator, and they both said that I had quote on quote, word for word, "ANNIHILATED the Wolfhome discord server AND LAUGHED ABOUT IT" ......what? "Annihilated"? How does one... destroy a discord server? ...and I "laughed" about it?? Especially since, you guys kept every single thing I did, literally everything I implemented was not changed or removed... so why were two administrators badmouthing me? Over something that did not happen? Where is the transparency and where are the consequences?

For any of you who would like screenshots or logs, please feel free to dm me on Discord. I'm not shy and have nothing to hide.

[VESSEL]

Vuk brings up a good point in how Cherzi's claim was glossed over. In fact, every mentioned instance of administration badmouthing current and ex-users and their characters as people hasn't really received any dedicated response. Is there anyone who wants to address this?

[Loki]

Vuk brings up a good point in how Cherzi's claim was glossed over. In fact, every mentioned instance of administration badmouthing current and ex-users and their characters as people hasn't really received any dedicated response. Is there anyone who wants to address this?

We are currently actively going to reach out to all individuals within the next day or two as it’s getting late! All claims are going to be followed up or if you beat us to it DM one of the alphas.

[Herb]

Putting this placeholder here, to let you all know that I am composing my reply. Everything came really fast so I am going through each one since my last comment. Please understand that I am not ignoring this, but I have been carefully reading everything and writing on a google doc at the same time to make sure everything that has been said so far is accounted for.
I am in pain due to personal reasons at the moment and it is late for me, so I apologize if this takes some time to type up.

[Laika-]

maybe I'm just cynical rn (genuinely not trying to be malicious) and I've admittedly been extremely detached from CL since the events of last year

but I feel like these kinds of WHF threads repeat themselves...I'm seeing the same points being made by both admin & subordinate parties that have already been made a plethora of times prior over the past 6-7+ years. That is problematic to me. It shouldnt have to become so repetitive and it'd be nice to see things be even moderately different for once :[

and this sort of vicious cycle kind of goes to show that there is evidently a lot fundamentally wrong here. not just on WH alone but with the way CL is operating as a whole. shit's exhausting

Edit: secondly, while I'm on the topic I guess...perhaps it isnt something a WH alpha can answer but I'm still curious to know if the Guardians are still playing any role in the overall functionality of CL? I have not seen them be actively present in a hot minute and I'm uncertain of what duties, if any at this point, they are still expected to carry out (and/or if those duties are even being fulfilled). I almost feel that there is virtually no benefit coming from it at this point in time but maybe that is just the perception I have with what's available right now.